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Triple J Week – the week in numbers

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Last week I spent 8½ hours each day between the hours of 9am and 5:30pm listening to Triple J. You can read about what I found each day by clicking on the following links:

During those 42.5 hours I listened to a total of 540 songs by 325 acts.

In terms of Country of Origin, Australia was streets ahead of the rest, approximately twice as many songs played as the American acts in second place, with Triple J maintaining an aural version of the Two Power Standard. The 262 Australian songs played were 48.52% of the 540 song total over the week. The breakdown by country is in the following table. Before you ask, the one ‘Unknown’ is a song called ‘Questions’ by a hip-hop artist called Skandal: Google was no help in identifying him or where he’s from. [Is is this song? – Ed.]

Country Total Percentage
Australia 262 48.52%
USA 132 24.44%
UK 87 16.11%
Canada 18 3.33%
Sweden 9 1.67%
New Zealand 8 1.48%
France 6 1.11%
Belgium 4 0.74%
Norway 2 0.37%
Germany 2 0.37%
Ethiopia 2 0.37%
Iceland 1 0.19%
UK 1 0.19%
Jamaica 1 0.19%
Netherlands 1 0.19%
Brazil 1 0.19%
Denmark 1 0.19%
Italy 1 0.19%
Unknown 1 0.19%
Total 540 100.00%

One of Triple J’s mission statement-like jingles is “We Love New Music”. Over 85% of the songs played over the week were from the last two years, with a dramatic drop off for anything from before 2009. Based on the last decade, no songs from 2002 and 2000 made it into the 540 songs played. Although I didn’t record it, anecdotal evidence from searching for the year of release seemed to show a very noticeable portion of the 2010 songs being released in the last few months; really new music. Only four songs from before 1990 were played, 0.74% of the total songs played. The four songs were ‘Lovely Day’ by Bill Withers (1977), ‘Welcome To The Working Week’ by Elvis Costello (1977), ‘Slave Master‘ by Gregory Isaacs (1979) and ‘That’s Entertainment’ by The Jam (1980). The full breakdown by year of release is in the following table.

Year Total Percentage
2010 404 74.81%
2009 56 10.37%
2008 10 1.85%
2007 19 3.52%
2006 13 2.41%
2005 10 1.85%
2004 5 0.93%
2003 4 0.74%
2001 6 1.11%
1999 2 0.37%
1998 1 0.19%
1996 2 0.37%
1994 1 0.19%
1993 2 0.37%
1990 1 0.19%
1980 1 0.19%
1979 1 0.19%
1977 2 0.37%
Total 540 100.00%

The original plan for the week was to look at how much major label music gets played on the station and compare it to a sample of the Nova playlist. However, time constraints meant this didn’t happen. A simpler comparison is to compare the bands played on the two stations. In my day of listening to Nova they played 110 songs by 72 bands. Of those 72 bands, 26 (i.e. 36% of the total) were played on Triple J over the week. The 26 bands played on both radio stations are in the following table.

Little Red Boy In A Box
John Butler Trio Washington
Ou Est Le Swimming Pool Bag Raiders
Birds Of Tokyo Band Of Horses
Bliss N Eso LCD Soundsystem
Muse Chromeo
Duck Sauce Temper Trap
Powderfinger The Klaxons
Cee-Lo Old Man River
Gyroscope Art vs Science
Kings Of Leon Philadelphia Grand Jury
My Chemical Romance Phoenix
Angus and Julia Stone Mark Ronson

Interestingly (or not) the most played song on Nova on the day I spent listening to it was ‘Barbara Streisand’ by Duck Sauce (the the DJ super-duo of A-Trak and Armand Van Helden) and this was also played on Triple J during the week, albeit just the once.  The most played bands on Nova on the day I spent listening to it were John Butler Trio and Little Red; both were played on Triple J and Little Red was one of the most played bands, with five songs played over the week.

The most played act on Triple J was Illy, whose new album was the featured album during the week, resulting in 15 of his songs being played during the time I was listening.  The following is a chart of the acts who had four or more song plays over the week, presumably because they are on some sort of priority playlist (not sure if I should count Glenn Richards as Melbourne or Adelaide by the way, but have put him in as a Victorian). They’re listed by city if Australian, and by country if not.

Band Total Country/City
Illy 15 Melbourne
Gorillaz 6 UK
Children Collide 5 Melbourne
Miami Horror 5 Melbourne
Gotye 5 Melbourne
Glenn Richards 5 Melbourne
Philadelphia Grand Jury 5 Sydney
Bag Raiders 5 Sydney
Jebediah 5 Perth
Little Red 5 Melbourne
Strange Talk 4 Melbourne
The Naked & Famous 4 New Zealand
The Holidays 4 Sydney
Howl 4 Ballarat
Bliss N Eso 4 Sydney
Magic Silver White 4 Melbourne
The Chemist 4 Perth
Hungry Kids Of Hungary 4 Brisbane
Two Door Cinema Club 4 UK
Midnight Juggernauts 4 Melbourne
Janelle Monae 4 USA
Funeral Party 4 USA
Sleigh Bells 4 USA
Mark Ronson 4 UK

The most played bands over the week show that, out of the Australian bands, those from Melbourne dominated the priority playlist.

The plays by each city became the focal point over the week with Brisbane, Australia’s third largest city coming in a lowly fourth in terms of songs played over the course of the week. If not for a last day haul it would have been behind the number of songs played from Canadian bands, not that there’s anything wrong with Canadian acts, anything but, but for as one of Triple J’s other main jingles is “We Love Australian Music”, Brisbane was very much looked over. The breakdown of Australian songs played over the week by city/region is in the following table.

City Total Percentage
Melbourne 103 39.31%
Sydney 71 27.10%
Perth 37 14.12%
Brisbane 22 8.40%
Blue Mountains 6 2.29%
Adelaide 6 2.29%
Ballarat 4 1.53%
Canberra 4 1.53%
Newcastle 3 1.15%
Fremantle 2 0.76%
Lismore 2 0.76%
Gold Coast 1 0.38%
Elcho Island, NT 1 0.38%
Total 262 100.00%

Following on from this is the pivot table that shows city, bands and number of plays during the week. I’ve also added year of the earliest song played in the final column (Dead Letter Circus had two songs played in the week, one from 2005 and one from 2009). This is probably the most important table of the whole lot for looking at the Brisbane music played and comparing it to the other cities over the week.

Brisbane Hungry Kids Of Hungary 4 2010
John Steel Singers 3 2010
Numbers Radio 3 2010
Washington 3 2010
Dead Letter Circus 2 2005
The Honey Month 1 2010
Bleeding Knees Club 1 2010
Powderfinger 1 1998
Butterfingers 1 2003
Custard 1 1996
Ball Park Music 1 2010
Gin Club 1 2010
Brisbane Total 22

Over the week, 22 songs from 12 Brisbane bands were played (although if you take Washington as a Melbourne act that would become 19 songs from 11 artists). Three of the bands, Hungry Kids Of Hungary, John Steel Singers and Ball Park Music, are playing the Triple J Australian Music Month party in a few weeks’ time and were responsible for eight of the 22 songs played (36% of the Brisbane total). Each time one of these bands’ songs was played it was accompanied by a jingle and/or plug for the gig.  The question is whether these bands would be played as much if not for Triple J promoting a gig they are organising.

The other really noticeable thing relates to the year of release, with Brisbane having four songs from before 2009 which, as was indicated in a previous table, seems to be the line where Triple J draws the line for ‘New Music’.  The four songs were:

These four songs from before 2008 are 18% of the total Brisbane songs played over the week. When you compare the pre-2009 songs from Triple J’s top three cities of Melbourne, Sydney and Perth you find the following.

City No. of Songs Played No. of Pre-2009 Songs Percentage
Melbourne 103 5 4.85%
Sydney 71 3 4.23%
Perth 37 3 8.11%
Total 211 11 5.21%

Although it’s obviously skewed by the small number of Brisbane songs played, it suggests that the people at Triple J have very little idea of what’s happening in Brisbane. It’s also interesting to note that from the list of Brisbane bands played over the week, six of the 12 bands, responsible for 13 of the songs played during the week, some 59% of the Brisbane total, played at this year’s Big Sound.  hat was that about “Current team – international and domestic recording, publishing, sync, distribution, managers, agents, etc” again?

Final Thoughts
Yes, it is very easy to criticise Triple J. There are plenty of accusations from all and sundry about what they do/don’t play, how much of certain genres get played or don’t get played, how much of the playlist is music you hear on commercial stations, how the playlist is biased to one city over another, even whether an almost 47-year-old should be the Musical Director of a radio station aiming itself at a 16–24 year old demographic. Triple J is in an impossible situation of trying to please everyone but, based on the amount of criticism aimed at it, seems to be pleasing no one.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. The original agenda was to compare Triple J’s playlist with Nova’s and see just how many bands and songs they had in common. Over the week the emphasis changed, based on what was being played, to comparing cities. But even with 42½ hours of listening, it’s still a small proportion of the whole week and it’s only one week. Maybe the remaining 15½ hours of each day were full of bands from Brisbane, maybe it was an atypical week, maybe this week’s featured album has been something from Brisbane and it’s brought all the numbers up. (I just checked and amazingly it is, the John Steel Singers’ debut album! So that would have added at least another 10 plays to the Brisbane totals, maybe even taken the city ahead of Perth.)

In terms of listeners, Triple J is way down the list; figures released this week put it in seventh place in Brisbane. And yet its influence is massive. While plenty of bands have proved that they don’t need Triple J, having its support opens a lot more doors for you; you only have to look at the majority of festival line-ups in Australia or go to a show by an act that’s been on high rotation on the station and compare the numbers in attendance to a show by a band that’s not being played almost relentlessly by them.

In doing some research I found a link on Triple J’s Wikipedia page to the ‘Inquiry into the Effects of Government-Funded National Broadcasting on Victoria’ by the Economic Development Committee of the Parliament of Victoria. Although the inquiry is over 10 years old, being from May 1999, it’s interesting how seriously Triple J and its Sydney bias was taken by a Victorian government considering Melbourne to be “The leading Australian City for popular music venues and performers”. The report included the following findings and recommendations:

The Committee finds that ABC management should be actively pursuing de-centralisation of Triple J rather than centralise programming in Sydney.

The Committee finds that there is an overwhelming concentration of Triple J resources in Sydney. The trend of centralisation has accelerated at Triple J over the past six months with Melbourne-based presenters and programs shifting to Sydney. This centralisation of activity is despite Victoria’s significant output of Australian bands and recordings.

The Committee recommends that the ABC should ensure that Triple J’s programs and staff be more evenly distributed throughout Australia. In view of Melbourne’s status as the centre for local bands and recordings, the Committee recommends that additional Triple J resources be relocated to Melbourne.

I’m not sure whether these recommendations were implemented by the ABC but, either way, listening to Triple J for a week in 2010 suggests a swing the other way, with Melbourne dominating the songs played by Australian artists and also dominating the Australian bands played. In recent years the Queensland government has been throwing money at the state’s music industry, proving funds for bands to tour and record, as well as providing money for conferences and other education programs but maybe it needs to focus its efforts more on influencing government organisations who can make a real difference to the prosperity of the Brisbane music scene.

30 Responses to Triple J Week – the week in numbers

  1. Meg White November 5, 2010 at 10:10 am

    One of the best on this website, I reckon.

  2. Darragh November 5, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Ed – this is excellent work. I know I’m a bit raving mad when it comes to discussing the shortcomings of Triple J ….and you’ve basically given me a lot more ammunition!

  3. Everett True November 5, 2010 at 10:32 am

    (from Facebook)

    New on Collapse Board: Does Triple J have an unfair bias against Brisbane bands?

    Steph Fielding
    Yes.
    29 minutes ago · Like

    James Dilger
    Not a Tasmanian band in sight either.
    25 minutes ago · Like

    Neil Robertson
    ‎2 of the last 3 Feature Albums (which automatically makes you the most played act in a week) have been from Brisbane. Hungry Kids 2 weeks ago, John Steel this week. If you did your figures based on this week the result would probably be pretty different I reckon.
    14 minutes ago · Like

    Darragh Bee-bop Murray
    Neil has a point yes. Still, it has been unusual for Brisbane bands/groups to get feature albums of late – it seems funny that we have two in quick succession.
    7 minutes ago · Like

  4. Andrew McMillen November 5, 2010 at 10:55 am

    A round of applause for Ed. He sure does love his Pivot tables!

  5. Darragh November 5, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Man, Pivot tables, they are awesome. Pretty sure that’s where Pivot (or PVT) got their name from.

  6. David November 6, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    E,
    I have much respect for ur knowledge of all things music … but….. it’s for this reason I’m disappointed on the blatant distortion of ur own statistics re JJJ. The J’s r a tax payer funded station so it’s makes logical sense that places of greater pop will be represented musically…. I’m from syd but recognise that Melb is responsible for the greatest musical talent that Oz has to offer .. maybe it has something to do with the fact they really get behind the musical scene – the recent closing of The Tote is an example; it didn’t stay closed for long. So why r u so surprised that Melb bands have the greatest representation … cause they kick arse.
    As for comparisons with Nova … seriously if it wasnt for JJJ testing the water with bands like John Butler and Little Red … Nova wouldn’t recognise them if they fell over them.
    Sure the J’s can be improved – they are not perfect by a long shot but seriously there is much more to this than ur poor attempt at distorting statistics.
    As for Kingsmill – who cares how old he is and how this somehow relates to the J’s target audience – the guy knows his music and how to make for an interesting interview – do u think the J’s should follow in the footsteps of Video Hits?
    Thank goodness we have the J’s – if I want to read statistics I’ll join the CSIRO.

  7. Everett True November 6, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    David, I didn’t write this entry.

  8. David November 7, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Apologies Everett, the original piece on JJJ came in on your Tweet .. I should have read the blog a little closer.
    My comments should be directed at Justin…. maybe he has spent too much time in “The Spotlight”.
    D

  9. cameron November 7, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    David: Melbourne doesn’t have 5 times the population (or bands) of Brisbane. Sydney doesn’t have 3 times the population (or bands) of Brisbane.

    Kudos to Justin for putting in the time and effort to actually get some numbers behind him. A lot of criticisms of JJJ have been brushed aside as being ill informed and borne of jealousy, but I don’t see how those accusations can be seriously laid here.

  10. Darragh November 7, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    David the thing is, you’re saying that Melbourne deserves to have more played because its ‘scene’ is better than elsewhere….

    How are we suppose to judge which location has better music than anywhere else if we are dominated by music from one particular area?

    Personally, I don’t think Melbourne has any better a scene than Brisbane.

  11. ed November 8, 2010 at 10:30 am

    David – it’s just adding numbers up and comparing them so I don’t really see it as ‘blatant distortion’. If you take population into account and normalise the data on a per million population basis you get this for song plays:

    Melbourne – 25.75 song plays/million population
    Sydney – 15.76 song plays/million population
    Perth – 22.30 song plays/million population
    Brisbane – 10.98 song plays/million population

    Interestingly it makes Perth only just behind Melbourne, Sydney a far way behind in 3rd and Brisbane way off in 4th still. And it’s the same story per bands played:

    Melbourne – 11.25 bands/million population
    Sydney – 8.21 bands/million population
    Perth – 10.25 bands/million population
    Brisbane – 5.99 bands/million population

    Even by doing this and making a fairly broad assumption that the number of bands in any city is relative to population size, it still has Melbourne way in front and Brisbane languishing in 4th.

    I don’t play in a band, I’m not even from Brisbane, hell, I’m not even from Australia, but over the last 5 years Brisbane has had the best local scene of anywhere I’ve ever lived. I just find it infuriating at how the Australian music industry largely overlooks the city. Being from Sydney, what do you base your view that Melbourne has “the greatest musical talent that Oz has to offer” and that Melbourne bands “kick arse”? Radio, TV, media? If there is a Melbourne/Sydney bias would you ever find out about Brisbane bands? On top of the lack of radio/tv play and media attention they have a hard enough job getting support acts in their own city (http://www.notaphoto.com/kasabian-little-red-the-riverstage-25-07-10) let alone getting to play to big audiences outside Brisbane.

    As for Kingsmill, I don’t really care much, it’s just a comment on what always seems to be the most popular issues that people have with triple j if you read comments on any forum; that it has too much of a Sydney bias (which it doesn’t seem to), that it plays too much hip-hop (which it doesn’t seem to), that at 47, Kingsmill is too old to know what 16 – 24 year olds really want to listen to.

  12. Trav November 8, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Wow, great article! Hope fully someone at Triple J reads this!!!!

  13. David November 8, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    For me, it’s about quality rather than quantity – each major city’s exponential population growth from that of Brisbane’s and its relative nature as to what should be played on radio is a recipe for disaster. The abomination that is commercial radio is all based on statistics – a grab for the all mighty corporate advertising dollar – so I guess my issue is with your statistics and their implied influence on what JJJ should be sending out on the airwaves.

    My point re Melbourne is quite simple and one concurred by many within the music scene – as far as their support of music, live music in particular, there is no better community within Australia. I’m not saying Syd, Perth, Bris don’t support music – I am saying that there is light and day between Melbourne and the rest. I’m not a musician but I am a lover of music – so I am coming from the perspective of a consumer of music, both recorded and live. My example of the attempted closure of The Tote and the ensuing uprise that resulted it being reopened; was to show Melb’s support for the local music scene. Let’s see if Sydney’s (Hopetuon) and Brisbane’s (Troubadour) get the same support from their local respective music communities. The constant influx of interstate bands to Melbourne in order to get foothold into the musical business because (if you read their interviews) their chances of success are much higher due to the well established and connected Melbourne music scene.

    So point is – why wouldn’t Melbourne be rewarded? Why wouldn’t JJJ lend a hand and do their bit to support Melbourne support itself and indirectly support the Oz music scene as well?

    My comment re blatant distortion is based on using statistics to drive your own agenda – rather than providing an objective viewpoint and backing it up with reasons why some of these stats are the way they are – eg. my comments re Melb. As for musical bias… What the? ….. The only bias I have is to music itself – I think Brisbane has produced some amazingly talented, great bands, and continues to do so, as do a lot of other cities (coastal and rural) – I am a lover of Australian music in general.

    As for Kingsmill I guess we have different views on this – the position of musical director is an extremely important one, one that has more to do with “what 16 – 24 year olds really want to listen to” – this position needs to be filled by someone who has a musical vision for the radio station – i.e. someone who can see beyond “what 16 – 24 year olds really want to listen to” – using his age as a gauge for whether or not he should be in this position, is so yesterday – haven’t we moved beyond such discrimination and was it even worth mentioning in your “statistics”?

    Anyway – I have said my piece – yes kudos for actually sitting down and compiling these statistics – you deserve credit – I guess a little more research into these statistics to produce a balanced, objective view would have been more productive – I am aware of the “flog Triple J” bandwagon but let’s not all jump on just yet without looking at the big picture.
    D

  14. cameron November 8, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    “My comment re blatant distortion is based on using statistics to drive your own agenda”

    Goddammit Ed! Don’t you know you’re supposed to use rumour and hearsay to forward your argument? None of these bloody statistics, you hear? Someone might think you were trying to actually add something of substance to a debate that so far has largely been lacking in such.

    Seriously though, reading that statement was one of those times where you have to laugh else you’ll end up crying.

    As for the rest of your comment, David, there is a degree of truth in your point that the Melbourne music community is very strong in many respects, but I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as you’re trying to make it out. Melbourne has a lot more venues than any other city, but I don’t believe it has a greater proportion of good bands. From what I’ve seen the other cities are all fairly even in terms of the actual music that they produce, it’s just that in the other cities a lot of those bands have to perform a lot less frequently, or perform at venues that a lot more ‘under the radar’ (eg: warehouses, house shows, community spaces, etc). In a way, that breeds a resourcefulness in the music communities in the other cities (or at least in Brisbane) that makes the music a lot better, or at least a lot more unique. recently I had to organise a tour to Melbourne for a few Brisbane bands, and I was struck by how many of the recommended Melbourne bands sounded so much like the popular bands of today (I heard a LOT of animal collective soundalikes). Not that you don’t get such bands in Brisbane or Sydney etc, but it seems like a much lower percentage. Funnily enough,I find that the few soundalike bands in Brisbane are often the ones that get pushed towards national focus.

    Anyway, the rest of my thoughts on the quality of the Brisbane cultural scene is well documented in the Rant in B Minor.

    For the record I’m not too fussed on JJJ either way, I personally know some bands who have received a lot of support from the station and I know a lot of bands who probably deserve to be played but who haven’t. Sunrise/sunset, as the saying goes.

  15. Darragh November 9, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    David – good comments, though the Troubadour situation vis-a-vis the Tote are not going to be comparable – the situation is completely different.

    Interestingly enough, it was the apparent ‘age’ of the last Triple J music director, Arnold Frolows, that got him replaced by Kingsmill.

    I’m not sure if the agist position really works – age has little to do with being able to enjoy music, but I suppose it has a lot to do with identifying with ‘youth’. I’d hate have my taste in music discriminated against because of my age.

  16. Everett True November 9, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Age is a factor in appreciation of music. No one over the age of 13 takes Billy Corgan seriously, surely?

  17. Darragh November 9, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    You’d be surprised.

  18. David November 10, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Cameron .. nice work on taking my comments out of context and missing my point.

    Statistics are a fantastic source sterile information if your name is R2D2 or Tron. In addition, quantitative data can so easily be misrepresented to support any subjective point of view… the media and politicians have been doing this, since the dawn of time.

    Darragh … I agree that the circumstances concerning the closure of The Tote and Troubadour may be different (and that of The Hopetuon for that matter) … but people power can change decisions, particularly those that are politically motivated and my example of the Tote was and example of this. – The Melbourne music community got behind the cause to reopen the venue and it worked. I drove by The Hopetuon last week, still sitting there in desolation .. an iconic live music location in Sydney, a victim of that city’s apathy.

    Totally agree with you about music discrmination and age … for the lovers of music .. I don’t think that will ever be an option.

    Not sure how radio station playlist statistics got us to this point … I digress… guess not all of us are robots
    D

  19. ed November 11, 2010 at 9:56 am

    One thing that was apparent in that committee paper was the whole “Melbourne IS Australia’s Music City”, and I found the attitude really arrogant. So what if the industry is based there and it has a lot of venues, it doesn’t really mean anything. London is the undeniable home of the UK music and music media industry but it doesn’t mean that bands from London are any good. It doesn’t even mean that the bands IN London are any good. Musical creativity in any country isn’t tied to one location. At times in the last 50 years the UK creativity has come out of a host of different cities; from Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Leeds/Sheffield, even Bristol managed to pretty much create its own music genre. And whilst Australia is obviously different in terms of its cities, Melbourne seems to think its place is set in stone – It is Australia’s music city, always has been, always will be – which to me is is yet another example of the stupid parochial nature of Australian cities/states.

    Even if what you say is true – that Melbourne is a night and a day ahead of every other city in Australia – it still doesn’t explain why Brisbane is so far off the pace in fourth place in terms of bands played and songs played. Surely if Melbourne was that far ahead and for the those reasons, the other major cities would be grouped a lot closer together, but they’re not. Whatever you do with the numbers Brisbane is way behind (although always ahead of Adelaide). And whilst I wasn’t exactly advocating some sort of Soviet-style socialist playlist based on relative population sizes, it does make me question why Brisbane, outside the anointed few, seems to be being ignored. As I said previously, there was never an agenda, I was interested in how similar Nova and triple j’s playlists were and how much major label music was being played. But when you listen to the radio for 8.5 hrs a day, hear well over a hundred songs and think “Did I really only hear 2 songs from Brisbane bands in all that time?”, check the numbers and find that actually you did, then the focus becomes something different.

    The closure of the Tote/Troubadour/Hoey are completely different. Word on the street about the Troub is that it’s structural issues with the building and allegedly the landlord has said he’d rather put a bomb in the place than spend a single dollar on it. If there’s any truth to that, my guess is that the building will be sold, demolished and another faceless, Valley monstrosity built in its place for even more Valley punters to get as wasted as possible.

    Anyway, you’re going to love one of the upcoming posts where I’ve looked at SEVEN YEARS of triple j’s featured albums. Anyone want to guess what it shows? You’ll all be really surprised!*

    *might be lies

    In case you’re interested, here’s the list of Melbourne bands played in the week and the number of times each was played. Have assumed Glenn Richards as being Melbourne although I’ve got a feeling he lives in Adelaide now. Have assumed Grinderman are Melbourne too. Should I count them as a UK band? 🙂

    Illy 15
    Glenn Richards 5
    Gotye 5
    Children Collide 5
    Little Red 5
    Midnight Juggernauts 4
    Strange Talk 4
    Magic Silver White 4
    Gypsy & The Cat 3
    Alpine 3
    Oh Mercy 3
    Blue King Brown 3
    Grinderman 3
    Miami Horror 3
    British India 2
    World’s End Press 2
    Xavier Rudd 2
    Cut Copy 2
    The Melodics 2
    Boy In A Box 2
    Muscles 2
    Eddy Current Suppression Ring 1
    Paul Kelly Tribute Band 1
    Gosling 1
    Alex & The Ramps 1
    Sally Seltman 1
    Lune Lake 1
    Temper Trap 1
    Combat Wombat 1
    Jordie Lane 1
    Custom Kings 1
    Richard In Your Mind 1
    Clare Bowditch  1
    Spiderbait 1
    Trial Kennedy 1
    Sydonia 1
    Behind Crimson Eyes 1
    The Getaway Plan 1
    Dan Sultan 1
    The Public Opinion Afro Orchestra 1
    Owl Eyes 1
    Paul Demsey 1
    Faux Pas 1
    Nick Thayer 1
    Calling All Cars 1

  20. cameron November 11, 2010 at 11:35 am

    David: thanks for completely missing *my* point. Ed deserves credit for getting some facts and numbers to support his claims. So many of these arguments are based on nothing more than a few generalised ideas with nothing of substance to back things up (from either side). Here is Ed, putting a lot of his own time into research so that he can make a point from an informed position, and you’re having a go at him for distorting the statistics! It seems to me (and, seemingly, the majority of other readers/commentors) that the statistics are pretty blatant, whichever way you work them.

    Ed has also stated numerous times that his original intention was not to investigate any potential bias in JJJ’s playlists, but that this just became more and more obvious as the week went on. Accusing him of having some preconceived result that he has skewed the statistics to support is just wrong, and frankly rather insulting. Hell, Ed hasn’t accused JJJ of any intentional bias, he has merely raised the question of why Brisbane artists seem to be being skipped over. In my opinion he has gone about this investigation with great respect, far more than is usually seen in this debate.

    There is one person here who seems to be coming into this debate with no real concrete information behind them, instead relying on popularly accepted generalisations. I’ll let you figure out who that is.

  21. Bianca November 11, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I like to think that Brisbane would at least attempt to support the Troub if we were given information as to why it was closing down. What Ed said about it being structural issues was the first reason I really heard. It’s not because people aren’t supporting the venue. The last few shows I’ve been to there were completely sold out. But then again I don’t really know how the Globe went with raising money, so I can’t really speak for “what Brisbane would do”. Either way, it’s not really the point here…

  22. David November 11, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Cameron … boo hoo
    If you bothered to read my previous posts I did give Ed credit for compiling the stats …

    Here are some stats for you:
    Kanye West record sales of “Graduation” shifted more than 950K in the first week of release compared to Surfjan Stevens “Age of Adz” which moved 36K

    So what?

    Does that mean:

    a) Kanye is better musician than Surfjan
    b) Kanye is a total tool
    c) Surfjan totally rocks and album sales mean shit
    d) All of the above
    e) None of the above

    All of those could be correct – depends on your viewpoint, depends on your musical persuasion, depends on if your Kanye’s or Surfan’s accountant, depends on the basis you put behind the statistics… yes yes yes it’s a simplistic and puerile example but it’s the point I have been trying to make. Its an opinion that I have on the whole ideology behind statistics – they are static, emotionless and vague especially when it comes to the big picture – an opinion that I am expressing.

    Is it a coincidence that a web site ( rightly or wrongly) with the underlying current to expose the bias against Brisbane music and musicians, posts statistics that could quite easily be construed as bad bad bad JJJ – you don’t like Brisbane’s musical scene?

    Ed – Oh I look forward to your next installment “SEVEN YEARS of triple j’s featured albums” ㋡ A good blog is one that creates controversy – people with differing opinions getting involved – that’s what it’s all about.

    Yes Bianca, The trading status of The Tote, Hopetuon and Troubadour are out of context within this blog – like I admitted .. I did digress a bit.
    D

  23. Cameron November 11, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    David, you’re creating a straw man argument here. I’m not going to argue with you further because you’re quite obviously a moron.

  24. Cameron November 11, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Actually, I’ll add one last comment to explain why you’re creating a straw man argument, since I doubt you’ll be able to figure it out on your own.

    The discussion is not ‘would JJJ be a better radio station if it played more music from Brisbane’ (a qualitative debate). It’s ‘does JJJ play a proportionally representative amount of music from Brisbane’ (a quantitative debate). What Ed has said and done is totally appropriate for the discussion that has been created.

    You’re creating an argument that noone else is having. Out of there have been some other tangential discussions, but none of those have anything to do with what you’re arguing either. You bring up these points (quantitative vs qualitative) and yet the discussion you’re providing makes me wonder whether you actually know what they mean.

  25. David November 11, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Hey Cameron,

    Make up your mind …either your going to reply or not… remember that I’m the moron.

    The only straw man argument here is the one Billy Bob is having with John Boy…

    Whether or not JJJ plays more Brisbane based music or not, whether that makes it a better radio station or not, whether proportionally the amount of music based on geographical origins of bands is biased against Brisbane is not what I am disputing …. my issue is with statistics and how easy they are to misrepresent or be taken out of context.

    Maybe there is a bias against Brisbane bands, maybe there is a genuine reason for this, maybe we are reading too much into the statistics, maybe JJJ plays too much hip hop, maybe JJJ is leaning more towards the mainstream … we can draw a lot from the statistics.

    So, we can be like you and piss in Ed’s pocket (Ed I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way) and agree with everything he says or we can express opinions that don’t necessarily agree with you or the author and have an open debate about the subject at hand.

    Either way … I’m off to have an argument (with myself)
    D

  26. Sam November 15, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Something that was referred to briefly, but not really reflected upon. Is Washington from Brisbane or Melbourne?

    As someone familiar with the Melbourne scene, I know a number of artists who have left other cities to come and build their career. It is both a blessing and a curse for Melbourne music, we seem to have more Bands then Fans these days.

    The reason you charge a cover is in order to pay the sound guy.

    I wonder what those stats would look like if they were based on Hometowns rather than residence? (much harder to find out)

  27. David November 21, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    OK .. so I have listened to JJJ with an objective viewpoint … and in the last week I have heard:

    – An influx of Brisbane bases bands and music ~ almost ad nauseam, yes its prob to do with Aus Music Month party in Brissy – but no comments from Ed to put some balance into his stats?

    – The closure of The Troubadour has less to do with structural issues ~ but more to do that live music in “The Valley” has taken a serious backseat to rave parties and/or local dislike to live music ( which by the way is the same fate The Annandale in Sydney is facing )

    – Oh ye Denver Birds sound MORE like Animal Collective than Animal Collective or any other Melbourne based bands you care to mention or allude to.

    I am not from Brisbane but seriously either Triple J has been reading your stats and taking heed or your stats are way out of line.

    D

  28. David November 21, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Ed – I stand corrected .. you never inferred that Melb bands sound like Animal Collective … it was the other wealth of knowledge who likes to debate other peoples opinions, Cameron’s quote.
    Sorry about that … but I still stand by the statement re the the Denver Birds.
    D

  29. ed November 22, 2010 at 5:07 am

    I do enjoy how you keep inferring I wasn’t objective.

    An influx of Brisbane bases bands and music ~ almost ad nauseam, yes its prob to do with Aus Music Month party in Brissy – but no comments from Ed to put some balance into his stats?

    So I looked on JPlay to see what was played during the week and here’s all the Brisbane music what they played each day. I don’t think the formatting is going to keep but you’ll all just have to put up with that:

    Date Time No. Song Band
    15-Nov 10:03 1  Queensland Evil Eddie
    13:55 2 Wristwatch Hungry Kids Of Hungary
    14:34 3 The Hardest Part Washington
    14:39 4 You’ve Got Nothing To Be … The John Steel Singers 
    16:30 5 All Fall Down Inland Sea
    17:17 6 Coming Around Hungry Kids Of Hungary
    16-Nov 11:03 7 Coming Around Hungry Kids Of Hungary
    11:42 8 All Fall Down Inland Sea
    13:03 9 Final Day Numbers Radio
    14:54 10 Bong In My Eye Regurgitator 
    17-Nov 9:09 11 Milk Eyes The Grates
    10:15 12 Bad Guys Bleeding Knees Club
    10:44 13 Final Day Numbers Radio
    13:34 14 Better Be Home Soon Busby Marou
    15:12 15 Overpass The John Steel Singers
    15:29 16 All Fall Down Inland Sea
    18-Nov 10:58 17 iFly Ball Park Music
    12:14 18 Cause Of Self The John Steel Singers
    19-Nov 11:10 19 Damn Defensive The Boat People
    11:45 20 Toes And Fingers The John Steel Singers
    12:31 21 Queensland Evil Eddie
    13:26 22 Coming Around Hungry Kids Of Hungary
    13:44 23 Final Day Numbers Radio
    13:51 24 The Hardest Part Washington
    14:48 25 All Fall Down Inland Sea
    16:36 26 Love Is A Heavy Word Violent Soho

    So ‘ad naseum’ = 26 songs in the week. This compares to 22 Brisbane songs in the week I listened, a whole 4 songs more over 5 days. Those 22 songs were from 12 bands. These 26 are from 14 bands. So it makes very little difference to the stats in terms of putting ‘balance’ into the stats. Using the same numbers for the other cities (which obviously wouldn’t be true if Brisbane has a whole 4 songs more being played) makes no difference to Brisbane’s position versus the other cities, still in fourth place even when you normalise it against the population in each city.

    Looking at the playlist for the week was depressing as it’s hardly changed since I did the analysis almost a month ago. The Brisbane band make-up isn’t much different and with Hungry Kids, John Steel Singers, Ball Park Music and Inland Sea playing triple j’s Australian Music Month gig it’s no surprise that they were on such high rotation during the week. Those bands make up 50% of the Brisbane songs played during the week.

    You’re 100% wrong about the Troubadour, all to do with the landlord (although sounds more like general issues rather than structural). There was an interview in last week’s Time Off but it’s not on their website.

    I don’t think I or this site has influence for triple j to ‘take heed’, not that the numbers would say they have anyway really, and despite what you seem to think, this only seems to backup the stats and add more weight to what I was saying.

  30. David November 23, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    My post was published on 21st Nov – in that post I stated “in the last week” so I am not sure why you excluded 20th and 21st – convenient omission? – My comment re Oh ye Denver Birds was not based on listening to their CD.

    My point was quite simple – for me listening from Sydney I have noticed a sudden increase of Brisbane based music on JJJ – now, maybe that’s got to do with the Aus Music Month party held on 17th Nov.

    What your stats DON’T seem to state is that in the light of the music party, there was ample coverage given to the Brisbane music scene, venues, interviews with Bands and yes airtime to their music… again this is pretty hard to express in merely printing statistics on what is played on the radio – which in turn highlights what I have been saying about balanced, objective information.

    You mentioned structural issues re The Troubadour – I was merely referring to that – what I am trying to point out is a mere matter of economics – if the live music industry in Brisbane was flourishing, landlords- club owners- bands – were making a decent $$$ – the closure of venues such as The Troubadour wouldn’t be as imminent. Make no mistake, I am not saying that this issue in confined to Brisbane – we have the same problems in Sydney.

    The space that live music venues occupy can make a quicker and more profitable $$$ per sqr mtr if turned into nightclubs, pokie havens or even into inner city apartments. So wat’s a landlord or even a local council member to do?

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